So I thought, in the spirit of conversation, I'd reply to his reply.
His comments italicised.
Also, some updated links of interest;
A comparison between Occupy Melbourne and Occupy Sydney here
Did Doyle overstep the legal mark? here
Possible legal action? here
I'VE witnessed scenes in our city I hope I never see again. By Robert Doyle.
Me too. By the angry old guy.
A self-righteous, narcissistic, self-indulgent rabble tried to capture the city.Me too. By the angry old guy.
With fighter planes! and tanks! and Cobra Commander loaned out some Vipers! No actually. Despite your bluff and rhetoric, a smallish group of people - in support of the global Occupy movement - set up camp on Swanston Street. No capturing of the city was involved.
See, 'occupy' used in military terms, is different to 'occupy' used in protest terms. In military terms an occupation is where you roll in tanks and bombs and guns and soldiers to someone's country and sit there until things are going more or less the way you want them. You know, like us and our allies did in Iraq and Afghanistan. In protest terms, an occupation is where you stay put in one place to get a message across. It's non-violent. Sure, it can be a bit inconvenient, hell even annoying, but that's the point.
As for the lovely bust in guns blazing nature of your character assassination, boy are you ever a jerk. You know, I know that there were some people who acted a bit stupidly there that day, but I also know that they were on both sides. Unlike you, I live in a place called reality, where I freely acknowledge that some protestors are going to be major bampots, just as I acknowledge that there were some cops who felt uncomfortable and uneasy with what they were asked to do. I believe there's good and bad in everyone. You obviously subscribe to the classic Liberal party doctrine of 'Right = good, Left = must be kicked to death'.
"Occupy Melbourne"? Maybe. But also a hard core of serial and professional protesters, hell-bent on trouble, infiltrating a protest for their own purposes, then holding the city to ransom.
Boy do you need to just stop reading Len Deighton novels. 'Serial and professional protestors'? 'Infiltrating'? 'Holding the city to ransom'? With what? Reality check Doyley - the protestors weren't the Taliban, and you're not Matt Damon. And one account I've seen mentioned one of these 'professional protestors' try to stir shit up, before safely bounding across the police line, unchecked. Have a few 'professional protestors' on the payroll didja Doyley?
After one week of occupying City Square, at 7am on Friday the protesters were told that they must leave by 9am.
Yeah, see about that. I've heard a few things from people saying they didn't know they had to leave. That they saw the police roll up, and next thing you know the stoush is on. So, what agreement was there and with who? Did the police actually announce anything? I don't know, and considering you weren't there, neither do you.
And what of the promises of Occupy Melbourne spokespeople during the week in the media - that they would vacate City Square peacefully once requested to do so?
See above matey. Still not entirely convinced about that.
What of their specific requests to police that they be given some notice so they could leave peacefully?
Yeah, what of that?
Well, look at the video footage. What a rabble.
I'll tell you what I've seen and read.
"I was punched in the stomach by a riot cop and dragged out of City Square with others. We're occupying the intersection now."
"Strangled by the cops and ejected now they're riding into us."
"Protesters on floor screaming, "get off me" "help me". Riot scenes in full now. Bloody protesters spotted."
"Many police seemed to enjoy the opportunity to cause some violence. At one stage a girl I was next to was choked as a policeman pushed her against the people behind with his arm across her throat. As her face went bright red I grabbed his arm and said “let her go” at which point he pushed my head back instead, to which my sore neck is a testament. Afterwards, she asked him, in tears, “why did you choke me?” and he smiled. On the other hand, I did not see a single protester act violently, an aspect of the day which even Robert Doyle doesn’t seem to deny, only confuse."
"Instantly, another officer grabbed my arm, twisting it behind my back. Another protester shouted “let him go you’ll break his arm” and a voice behind me shouted “I fucking hope so”."
"None of the police who jostled me had visible name tags. All were young men who seemed to enjoy being aggressive."
"At least two of the other women sitting in the space with me had received blows to the head during proceedings: one had been punched in the face by police earlier that morning, and another woman’s head had collided with the ground as she was being hauled out of the crowd. One woman said that, as she was being dragged away, a male police officer had squeezed and twisted her nipple."
Yes, you're right, the police were a rabble weren't they?
Well, it was until your lot showed up.
Again, look at the video footage. Peaceful? Hardly. And how do these protesters explain the knives, hammers, bricks, bottles and flammable liquids that we found in their illegal tent city? What were they for?
Knives - cutting food, they were running a kitchen there you know. Hammers - putting a stall together? you may need one of these beauties. Better than using a shoe. Bricks - they stop tent flaps flopping around in the breeze. You know, because they're heavy. Bottles - used to hold liquid. More efficient than cupping water or juice or beer in your hands. Flammable Liquids - these can be used to make fire. Fire makes raw food cooked. Look Doyley I understand that you're a white, Liberal male of a certain vintage, which means you've probably never cooked food for fear of turning into a woman, but really, this is pretty elementary stuff.
Also, quick question. These guys were there for a week yeah? So if the tent city was so 'illegal', why didn't you bust it up at the start? I mean if I decide to build Cobra's Terrordome at the corner of Bourke and Swanston, does that mean I've got a week free and clear before the rozzers descend? Shit by that time I'll have Major Bludd and a formation of Hiss tanks ready to roll out. Did it take you a week to notice? There's only a cop shop just across the street. Sheesh. I'd hate to see how you handle a serious crime.
What a magnificent job by Victoria Police. From the outset the police planning and attention to detail was outstanding.
Yes, whoever planned Operation: No Name Tag, Operation: Kick The Feral and Operation: Nipple Tweak certainly deserves a commendation, and who knows maybe even a much-needed transfer to Blackwater, where they can pal around with old mates of Augusto Pinochet.
The careful strategy to move police through the City Square incrementally, reclaiming the square with City of Melbourne officers clearing and cleaning as progress was made, brought normality very quickly to what was an eyesore and public health hazard.
Moving an increasingly agitated, volatile crowd out of City Square, out of the Collins/Swanston intersection, down Swanston St and away, was carried out efficiently and with absolute minimum use of force.
And the plan to hold up all traffic on Swanston St for 6-8 hours? Was that part of the plan? There was no inconvenience until the bloody cops started 'fixing' the problem. The camp only became an eyesore after it got smashed to pieces. By YOUR guys. 'Minimum use of force'? R U SRS? What do they do if someone jaywalks, blow their brains out?
The police were always in control.
Except when they chose to be out of control, like the ones who 'forgot' their name tags.
Back to the protest chants though. "Our streets," they chanted. Well, "our" streets belong to more people than the 300-400 protesters who brought the city to a halt.
They bought the city to a halt? All week? The whole city? Businesses stopped, Transport stopped, Hospitals closed down? And the first annual Doyle award for psychotic exaggeration goes to...
And ya know what? The city square does belong to more than 300 people. It's for every Melburnian. I wasn't using it at the time, were you? How about if I give my tiny share of it for a year to those guys? That's 365 days they get off me. Anyone else want to chip in?
"This is what democracy looks like," they chanted, trying to deride the police operation.
Yes it is. A small, noisy, confused minority can't tyrannise the majority and disrupt the city for their self-aggrandisement.
Oh Doyley, the police operation derided itself. The world has now seen how ugly you can be, and let me tell you they're not impressed. Self-aggrandisement? Nah. The global Occupy movement is about freeing people from economic slavery and stopping rich people buying government. Worldwide the movement has more followers than the number that failed to make you Premier that time. The Occupy peeps don't need to self-aggrandise - they're already much bigger than you could hope to be. A washed-up wanna-be Premier who now bears the highly ceremonial office of Lord Mayor. Wowee, colour me impressed.
"Give us our Square," they chanted. Not their square. The City Square of four million people, 800,000 of whom use the city every day.
Yep and I've already loaned them my days. Hey anyone else want to chip in? Like, maybe a weekend you're not going to be using the city square.
But in the middle of the ugly crowd videos, a few points need to be made:
THE Occupy Melbourne protest was allowed to continue for a week. That's a reasonable time to make a point, but the city must return to normal at some point. Our streets belong to everyone, not a self-appointed rabble.
Sure. So, let me get this straight... the new statute on making a political point and campaigning for social justice is... seven days. So, wait, was apartheid ended in seven days? Did it take seven days to get women the vote? Did it take seven days to end the Jim Crow laws? Did it take seven days of protesting the Vietnam War to end it? Hmm guess not... Hey Doyley, your calculations are stuffed.
THE protest was infiltrated by professionals: what were those knives, hammers, bottles, bricks and fuel for? And what happened to the solemn promises by the "real" Occupy Melbourne spokespeople that they would leave peacefully when required?
Sure, there may have been a few kranks there, but most people seemed to think it was going well, with a really nice peaceful vibe, until the police showed up. Of course, throwing in a few agents provocateur probably helped your case. Oh, and we can't forget the standard Vic Government approach of blanket pardoning all forms of police brutality can we? Labor or Liberal, it's all the same, when cops crack skulls, both smile, path them on the head and say 'good job'.
I've already mentioned the kitchen items you can't recognise. Get your wife to show them to you, and when you're ready ask her about this 'laun-dry' thing.
There were thugs in that crowd who just wanted to fight police, do violence.
There were police in that crowd, telling their fellow officers how much they were looking forward to fucking up some hippies too. So one's okay and the other's wrong? Can you tell me why Doyley?
POLICE and City of Melbourne officers and the Metropolitan Ambulance Service officers performed bravely, professionally and efficiently. Yet of course there were the usual "Police brutality" bleatings.
'Bleatings'. Wow, you're one evil psychotic pig. Did you ever stop to consider that those 'bleatings' might be genuine? Are you happy to have police breaking the law, beating the crap out of people? I guess as long as they're not voting Liberal, you probably don't care right? Is that how you dismiss any and all claims of violence by police, as 'bleatings'. What if one day, you're on the wrong end of a police truncheon? Can we tell YOU to stop 'bleating'?
The police carried out the whole operation with restraint and minimal use of force in the face of screaming provocation. Any contrary claim is wrong.
No Doyle, you're wrong, and worse than that you're either intentionally sticking your head in the sand or a liar.
NO ONE gets arrested for protesting: you have to escalate it, break the law, get violent. And there were more than 50 arrests.
HAH! Ohh, that's a good one. Doyley, I live in Melbourne. I have seen more unprovoked crackdowns on protests than you've had loving touches from your missus, ie at least 5, maybe 6. I've never seen a clash with police started by the protestors. Ask yourself this - you're a scrawny five foot three vegan. Are you really going to start shit with a guy carrying a stick and a gun who looks like a side of beef? Come one, this holier than thou defending of the police is starting to look quite shrill and forced. Your Oscar is in the mail Ms Streep...
50 arrests. How many convictions? Yeah, just what I thought.
PUBLIC safety, public order and public amenity are precious and must be protected and defended.
The final point, though, is one to be made through gritted teeth.
No matter when that operation occurred, ugly scenes were always going to happen. It's what the rabble wanted. You could tell the adrenaline rush of pleasure that propelled the protest crowd was something they had devoutly wished for.
"Boy, I wish some thug would stove my head in with a stick today! That would be NEAT!" And you seriously believe that shit? No-one, NO-ONE wants to be beaten up. No-one hopes to have their arm twisted, nipple tweaked (well maybe in a different context...), face punched, stomach punched, back kicked, throat strangled. Only a psychotic fool believes otherwise.
And the final irony?
"We are the 99 per cent," they chanted.
But they are not the 99 per cent.
They are a tiny number who held the centre of the city to ransom; disrupting businesses and community events; denying use of popular and busy public space to anyone except themselves; shutting down public transport and city streets one week after their initial protest; vandalising cars, trees, benches and businesses down Swanston St.
And thus does the paranoid ranting of a defender of money over people continue. Robert Doyle, a crap opposition leader, a not-quite-Premier, and a vicious pig of a Lord Mayor.
Come back John So, all is forgiven...
Hear hear!
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